The ego loves to seek but never to find” is the closest thing to an organizing ethos for comedians Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak’s delightfully meandering new podcast, Berlant & Novak — and for their beloved podcast Poog before it. After meeting and becoming friends through New York’s stand-up comedy scene more than a decade ago, the pair bonded over their mutual obsession with purchasable solutions to the problem of being alive. Poog, which premiered in November 2020 and aired more than 200 episodes, blew up not only because listening to Berlant and Novak dish about colonics, egg freezing, and being healed by the title of a book they haven’t actually read is pure sorcery but because — crucially — the hosts aren’t taking their search for enlightenment too seriously. It’s their chemistry and observational humor that keep listeners hooked, as when Novak theorizes that babies love Elmo because they are the only ones who remember that God looks like him or when Berlant describes a Lypo-Spheric vitamin-C serum as having “horse-cum consistency.”
The show’s fans, who call themselves “hags,” were devastated when Poog abruptly stopped releasing new episodes in October 2024 because their contract ended with their streaming platform, iHeartRadio. A week later, the duo announced a new independently produced podcast, and the relief was akin to discovering that the Library of Alexandria’s contents had not only survived but multiplied. Berlant & Novak allows them to link to the kooky products they discuss on the show and offer subscriber benefits, like bonus content and special shout-outs at the end of episodes.
Berlant is best known for her digressive improvised comedy, which pairs sharp eloquence with clownish gestures, as in her stand-up special, Cinnamon in the Wind, and her one-woman show, Kate. Novak is riding the success of her Emmy-nominated special, Get on Your Knees, a tender and poetic rumination on the blowjob. Their podcast handles wellness with equal measures of gravitas and absurdity, providing a space for those of us who are neither spirulina-addicted barre sluts nor anti-vaxx raw-milk shills. Over vegan Thai food in Studio City, Berlant and Novak shared their health hits and misses.
On how their relationship with wellness has evolved since starting a podcast:
Kate Berlant: Part of me is like, It hasn’t changed. The wider culture has changed.
Jacqueline Novak: Wellness has become broader and more commonplace.
KB: Well, now it’s, like, RFK Jr.
On their current No. 1 wellness tip:
JN: Exercise. Heart rate up.
KB: Jacqueline has been doing heroic exercise for years. I’ve been watching. It’s, like, my second week exercising. Talking about exercise and the benefits of exercise — nobody wants to fucking hear it. I can’t believe I’m even saying it.
JN: The word exercise also sucks.
KB: Jacqueline got me into Tracy Anderson.
JN: I’ve been exclusively doing that for, like, a year in studio.
On skin-care routines:
JN: Serum, moisture, SPF. I’m not putting anything on until I put essence on. Minimum two steps.
KB: I do micellar water, then oil cleanse, then regular cleanser, then essence, then serum, followed by retinoid cream, then moisturizer, then eye cream.
On psychedelics:
JN: I’ve never done one.
KB: I love psychedelics.
JN: Oh wait, one time I did something — it was really micro. But I’ve never done anything else.
KB: I had an ex-boyfriend who was an acidhead. I haven’t done acid in years. But I love mushrooms. I’ve been known to do a couple big guided trips. I’m curious about microdosing LSD, but I haven’t done that.
JN: I’m curious about it all, but I’ve been on a carefully nuancing antidepressant.
On red-light therapy:
KB: Love it.
JN: Infrared is really what you need. You gotta be careful — there are some cheap LEDs. Look up the light spectrum and do your research accordingly.
On probiotics and prebiotics:
KB: This struggle continues. Probiotics were in my dream last night.
JN: Dr. Will Bulsiewicz — read his books.
KB: I was taking a probiotic for months I thought was helping me. Then I got a “Throw this away urgently if you’ve been taking this” notice.
JN: Take them to drop them in your system, but if you want those strains to thrive, you’ve gotta feed them the foods they like or it won’t take hold. This is what Bulsiewicz told me. Plant diversity — 40 different types of plants a week. Yes, that includes grains!
On seed oils:
JN: That’s a Berlant question.
KB: I’ve been talking about seed oils for a long time. They’re probably to be avoided. But listen, if you’re going to a restaurant, you’re going to eat seed oils — and I love to go to restaurants. I’m not sautéing broccoli in canola oil in my home. But I know that I still ingest them because I’m in the world. You’re probably fine unless you’re mainlining rapeseed oil.
On microplastics:
KB: We’re fucked. We know this now.
JN: We welcomed plastic and here we are. The latest is with the tea bags. The joke is that the plastic tea bags are the high-end ones. They better pivot — and fast!
On beef tallow:
KB: Don’t care. I’m asleep before I could even bring myself to investigate it.
JN: I’m thrilled to be out of the loop on beef tallow. It’s nice to not be five years ahead on a particular terror. It’s almost like not knowing about seed oils.
On meditation:
KB: Essential. The only way to ascend. And impossible.
JN: I’ve started to get back into it.
KB: So have I — even five minutes a day. I’m trained in Transcendental Meditation, formally.
JN: I’m trying to sit down for one fucking minute.
KB: Even two minutes. I did the ten-minute David Lynch death meditation.
JN: I missed it! To think you didn’t text me. I saw that it was happening.
KB: I did it while waiting for Mexican food at a bench.
JN: Imagine if I said, “No, meditation is shit.”
On IV hydration therapy:
KB: I’ve done it kind of a lot. Not just for the fun of it — it’s fucking expensive. I had a mild flu, and once I was no longer contagious, I went in for hydration and I was truly recovered.
JN: I did one before going on the road once to give myself a boost. Impossible to say whether it worked.
KB: I kind of swear by it, I have to say. But a nurse told me once a month is plenty. Zinc, vitamin C, glutathione, magnesium.
On intermittent fasting:
KB: I don’t do well with hunger.
JN: I like to eat meals that put me to sleep. The real truth is: Don’t listen to us.
On supplements:
KB: I’m still waiting for vitamins to kick in. I’ve yet to be like, “Oh my God, I skipped my vitamin D for three days!”
JN: I’ve taken a B12 supplement every day this last week — and D3. It’s because they’re liquid. Swallowing a capsule is tough. If I can get it all in a spritz … that I can do.
On collagen banking:
KB: You can’t take it with you.
JN: When a skin-care product is like, “This stimulates collagen production …” We’re like, “We know!” It’s laughable to present it to us like it’s new information.
On the placebo effect:
KB: If you think something is working, then it is. Maybe.
JN: Core principle.
KB: Because I don’t have religion in my life per se and we live in a godless culture, the way into any kind of worship or communal experience is somehow through consumerism. There is something holy contained in the unholy.
JN: My only interest in life is the holy contained in the unholy. Literally, it’s, like, one of my only themes.
On health insurance:
KB: I take a migraine injection and I’ve been in hell. It went from $5 to $900.
JN: My stuff, not the generic, it’s $1,000.
KB: America is hell.
On the power of gossip:
JN: I don’t like it.
KB: That’s how we’re different.
JN: I read in a couple of things that it’s mystically bad — literally even in terms of your own mystical powers.
KB: You brought me off of it.
JN: What you say about others shall be visited upon the self because the unconscious cannot distinguish. It’s like you’re imprinting it on you. The unowned part of yourself is another thing you hate in others. You hate that they’re allowing themselves to do this thing you won’t allow yourself.
On their favorite little treat:
KB: My Breville Bambino espresso-maker. And I’ve got coconut milk, but, apparently, there’s monkey abuse involved, so I shouldn’t be drinking it. They chain monkeys up and make them crack the coconuts or something? That’s bad.
JN: For me, fixing something to bring to the tub. It feels so dangerous and wrong to sit on the edge of the shower eating a cracker.
On believing a single change could revolutionize your life:
JN: Every day, I believe I’m on the brink of finally figuring it out, and I live that way. I think I’m going to do it until death.
KB: By the way, that’s the key to a long life.
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